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PingBad
Post Whore
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 3027
Location: New Zealand
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 Posted: Jul 18, 2011 5:21am Post subject: |
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| katsklaw wrote: | | PingBad, u first. According to the rules, we are allowed to say when we think ideas are stupid/false .. etc. Which is all I've done, someone voiced an opinion and I voiced mine in return. Nothing wrong with it. |
I wasn't trying to pull anyone up on the rules (hence my use of "personal request") - but it seems lately that whenever you and trixar have opposing views on a given topic you both have at it until the apocolypse (or until either one of you give up - whichever happens first)
By all means, carry on, I was only stating a request with my user's hat on (and not my mod's hat) |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1614
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: Jul 18, 2011 1:14pm Post subject: |
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| Trixar_za wrote: | *sigh* My 'guesses', as you put it, can be tested. People can go count for themselves and draw their own conclusions (yes - even you katsklaw). I even gave you the figures and the math that I used. As PingBad has stated, the bigger the sample size, the easier it would be to determine more accurate stats.
Bitching how inaccurate my numbers are won't fix the fact that they do not exist. Nor does it change the fact that neither Atheme or Anope makes it easy to determine if the network is running either of them. All I can say is if you can do better then please do.
Also fine, let's use 855 as stated the network rankings:
143 = Atheme
428 = Anope
284 = Other
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855 Total Networks
Yes, these figures may be inaccurate, but hey, they exist now which is a lot better than guesstimates. |
You are still taking YOUR sites stats and applying them here. There is nothing that says or even suggests that SIRC indexed nets follow the same pattern. Although I'll admit that these numbers look more believable.
Inaccurate results are not better than no results, they are equal. Anyone can come up with the wrong answer. The challenge is to get the right answer. Apparently you are content with being so reckless with "facts". I personally am not. The people on your service may be 3:1, but that doesn't by any measure suggest that those indexed here are too.
The fact remains and I'll say it for the 3rd time, you can not get an accurate count without scrawl logging the services packages, which will not happen.
There is just way too many variables that haven't been accounted for that we as users do not have access to to come to an educated conclusion, thus any numbers we *do* give is a "guess".
It's no secret that certain software combos are used by certain types of nets/admins. It's possible that more Anope admins are willing to index and more Atheme admins are not. there is also a growing trend to not index so it's possible that fewer Atheme admins will index with you, but have already indexed here and not only is this scenario plausible, it would blow your 3:1 ratio out of the water. The possibilities are endless. You're a good person trix, I just think you jump to conclusions way too fast without seeing all the facets. 
ciao |
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Trixar_za
Eleet
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 624
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Jul 20, 2011 3:58am Post subject: |
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The Majority of the people came from SIRC to make their network page on my site. Hence relevance is in place. We also ask people to provide their IRCd and Services. These aren't numbers I magically cooked up because they can be verified.
All I did was correlate my stats into something I could use to determine a ROUGH estimate using the information provided by SearchIRC. Going on nenolod's own statement that it's 3.5:1 ratio (mine being 3:1), I think my stats came our pretty close to expectations.
I have actually done all the work. I really don't gives a rat ass what you think about it's accuracy or not. You're only defense is that my numbers can't be verified against a secondary source. I highly doubt that chaz or nenolod will implement a way for an indexer to determine which services package is being used. I also doubt that Jason would take the time to implement it for SearchIRC just to provide this secondary source.
Hey, I've done all the work, so people can have a rough idea how the numbers are divided. As for your continual criticism of these numbers, I leave you with a quote from Theodore Roosevelt: | Quote: | | "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." |
Also, I'm so over this. I made an effort and worked out the rough numbers. You didn't do anything besides criticize them. Deal with it. |
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macs
none
Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Posts: 30
Location: UK
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| Posted: Jul 22, 2011 5:43am Post subject: Ok =] |
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| Okay Thanks. =] |
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nenolod
Idler
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 357
Location: A box!
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| Posted: Jul 22, 2011 5:36pm Post subject: |
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i don't really see the point in the numbers of deployment of both on SIRC... as i have previously said, SIRC is only a subset of IRC and has never ever had full coverage of IRC ever.
also, most of the users on networks indexed on SIRC are typically on a ton of networks with basically, the same users on it, at least in my experience.
i think in the SIRC community, as i previously said the ratio is 3.5:1 simply because anope started out from day 1 as a mature product due to being forked from epona (which died) and atheme starting from basically nothing so it took time to build up. when you're continuing from an already established product, with users, and then you inherit them, it gives you a great advantage.
i would figure the number that actually matters is deployments on new networks, and when you look at those numbers, atheme seems to be on equal footing for new deployments (at least of the ones mentioned on the forums) with 11 deployments each for the last year in topics where they felt mentioning the software platform was worthwhile (although at least one of those seems dubious as the owner switched to anope from atheme and then the network died a few weeks later so it seemed like there was lack of a concrete plan for that network).
in terms of IRC channel contact points, #atheme has 83 users at present and fluxuates daily between 80-95 users. #anope has 70 users, so that is basically on equal footing.
i guess, in the real world, they're probably basically equal in terms of number of networks deploying each... although, i think most of the anope networks are on 1.8, but i do not have any real evidence to support that claim. |
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