is irc dying as whole or what

Trixar_za · Posted: Nov 27, 2010 11:10am Post subject:

That could also be an contributing factor... Less bots and more real users. Even with a half-arsed BOPM and IRC-Defender setup can largely reduce botnets on some networks. If the people use less Services bots, that would also explain a drop.

Interesting to think that maybe the big networks are just better protected than they were a few years ago? That could also explain a change in their user counts - less bad, more good Wink

katsklaw · Posted: Nov 27, 2010 7:52pm Post subject:

I don't see networks using less bots though. The big nets only have 1-5 bots, maybe 7. How many < 500 user nets have you been to that uses BotServ bots? Nearly all I'd assume some with 20-50 bots each. which increases the bot count globally, not reduces. To be honest, I don't remember the last time I seen a network with less than 100 users that had less than 10 services bots. Anope ships with 7 bots before any BotServ bots are added. DALnet has 5-6, UnderNet has 1 or 2, I can't remember X and W iirc. IRCNet and EFnet have 0. QuakeNet, the largest network interestingly enough has lost 60% of their users is down to roughly 70,000 from nearly 200,000. they have 5 I think. Random XYZNet with less than 100 users, not hard to find 20 bots.

As far as less botnets, that's not possible to prove since we have no clue how many botnets there are today let alone 10 years ago. Again because of the restrictions in the protocol. We can certainly speculate and assume, but can't make any educated estimates.

Better protected? Definitely better protected than any Unreal network.

stitch · none Joined: 28 Apr 2009 Posts: 16

katsklaw · Posted: Nov 28, 2010 2:25pm Post subject:

10 is still way too many bots. 2 is better. 1 is perfect.

Bahamut > unreal + any services package. DALnet dumped DreamForge in favor of Bahamut FOR A REASON! Unreal is based on DreamForge, doesn't take a 6th grade education to count those jelly beans! (Yes, I already know unreal claims all the DF gone is gone, but is it really? if so why are there DAL credits in the src?)

The ircd is and should always be the front line defense, no exceptions! If you have to rely on any other software, you've already created a gapping security hole.

stitch · none Joined: 28 Apr 2009 Posts: 16

katsklaw · Posted: Nov 28, 2010 2:56pm Post subject:

hahaha, that's rich! So in your logic overloading 1 process (services) with filtering every connection, text string etc, is better than allowing each IRCd to filter it's own data, which by the way is called "load sharing" is better?!?! that's not even counting the bi-di data stream chewing up bw! So it's better to let services, which can't do anything but REACT, than to stop the bastards from connecting in the first place.

That's like saying email macros designed to thwart hackers on your PC is more secure than blocking them from getting in to your network in the first place. Lets think about that again, anti-virus on each node in a network or anti-virus in the firewall. hmmm, which is better??

I got an idea, lets put the condoms on after sex!

LMAO, I'm out!

PingBad · Posted: Nov 28, 2010 6:43pm Post subject:

I'm partial to both points of view - with services, it's one configuration in one spot, applying network wide; with IRCds, it's one configuration, one spot, per-server and only applicable to each respective server.

O:Lines should be managed per-server, spamfilters managed net-wide, etc...

stitch · none Joined: 28 Apr 2009 Posts: 16

Trixar_za · Posted: Nov 29, 2010 5:04am Post subject:

I'll inject at this point. The problem with 'retarded' BOPM is mostly because it's BADLY configured because most people don't bother to read the FAQ or the Manual.

Using the basic BOPM never works very well and with Unreal only protects the server it's connecting on, but with 10 seconds of checking the FAQ gives you the solution to make it work network wise. Spending another 10 minutes adding proper lists and BOPM is way better than any IRCd based DNSBL function, which also might I add UnrealIRCD and Inspircd has a module for.

The same can be said for IRC Defender, which is that if people bothered to properly configure it, they wouldn't have half the problems they do now.

Also now that we've fully strayed from the topic, let's please return to it? Civility would also be appreciated.

PingBad · Posted: Nov 29, 2010 1:46pm Post subject: