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HalfOp. Needed or not?
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Do you think HalfOp is needed?
Yes
60%
 60%  [ 6 ]
No
40%
 40%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 10

Author Message
EthanB
none
none


Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Aug 25, 2010 3:40pm    Post subject: HalfOp. Needed or not? Reply with quote
Do you think HalfOp is needed? In my opinion it is worthless. Why give somebody op if you don't trust them?
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PingBad
Post Whore
Post Whore


Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 3027
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2010 3:04pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[Moving to somewhere where people can reply Smile -PingBad]

HalfOp does have its uses in a lot of ways - I, for one, see it more as a trialistic style privilege, to test the potential full op to see if they are the kind of person I can trust to run the channel(s) I own. It allows me to see if they are open to corruption or power trips rather quickly, and - based on their performance as a HOP - decide if/when they get the full +o instead of a mere +h.

The same arguments could also apply to Local IRC Operator vs Global IRC Operator (when/where applicable) too Smile
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EthanB
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none


Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Aug 27, 2010 9:25pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hmm. I guess... all the chans i have ever created i do not have halfops lol
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katsklaw
Guru
Guru


Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1614
Location: Somewhere you're not.
PostPosted: Aug 28, 2010 6:56am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I find it best practice to give the users what they want instead of giving them what I want. Ask your users instead of asking here. they are the ones you need to please ... not us.

I certainly wouldn't choose an IRCd just because I personally didn't like an optional feature. Especially one that is as trivial as halfops.
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Ryan-DM
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none


Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 16
PostPosted: Sep 04, 2010 1:54am    Post subject: Re: HalfOp. Needed or not? Reply with quote
EthanB wrote:
Do you think HalfOp is needed? In my opinion it is worthless. Why give somebody op if you don't trust them?


IRC was just fine long before half-op was invented.

Halfop is an extra and very optional mode, and is definitely not necessary. Some of the most successful networks run without it, and the networks that do tend to have it enabled generally have a host of other unnecessary features as well. It's mostly just an extra status symbol than a feature that is integral to running a successful network.
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katsklaw
Guru
Guru


Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1614
Location: Somewhere you're not.
PostPosted: Sep 04, 2010 6:11am    Post subject: Re: HalfOp. Needed or not? Reply with quote
Ryan-DM wrote:
EthanB wrote:
Do you think HalfOp is needed? In my opinion it is worthless. Why give somebody op if you don't trust them?


IRC was just fine long before half-op was invented.

Halfop is an extra and very optional mode, and is definitely not necessary. Some of the most successful networks run without it, and the networks that do tend to have it enabled generally have a host of other unnecessary features as well. It's mostly just an extra status symbol than a feature that is integral to running a successful network.


All IRC networks have features that are not needed. However, the main problem with this is that this topic is solely based on opinion and preference.

QuakeNet, UnderNet, DALnet, IRCnet and all those down to even DarkMyst have features that anyone could debate as where it should be optional or even needed.

Personally I don't need any mode not specified in RFC1459, infact, there are some of those that I don't need either. Bans for example, too easy to evade. Chanmode +b is optional in my opinion. We really don't need chanops either. Especially in todays IRC world where every IRC monkey thinks it's the job of IRCops to govern channels anyway.

DCC can be removed .. that's not "needed" IRC is for chatting, not file sharing. Chanmode +e/I .. optional. Services .. not needed. You'd be surprised of exactly how much control a chanop has just by having the channel set +mints/p.

Moral of the story: It's all personal preference, if you as an admin want to have halfops, then have halfops, if you don't like halfops then don't have them .. its just that simple.
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nenolod
Idler
Idler


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 357
Location: A box!
PostPosted: Sep 04, 2010 10:09pm    Post subject: Re: HalfOp. Needed or not? Reply with quote
EthanB wrote:
Do you think HalfOp is needed? In my opinion it is worthless. Why give somebody op if you don't trust them?


I think fine-grained ACL enforced in the IRCd (possibly set by services or some other persistent ACL mechanism such as IRCX's ACCESS) is a better approach than having multiple levels of channel op.
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puffy_rules
none
none


Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Mar 31, 2011 11:04pm    Post subject: Nope Reply with quote
Halfop is pointless. The end.
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puffy_rules
none
none


Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Mar 31, 2011 11:04pm    Post subject: Re: HalfOp. Needed or not? Reply with quote
nenolod wrote:
EthanB wrote:
Do you think HalfOp is needed? In my opinion it is worthless. Why give somebody op if you don't trust them?


I think fine-grained ACL enforced in the IRCd (possibly set by services or some other persistent ACL mechanism such as IRCX's ACCESS) is a better approach than having multiple levels of channel op.


I love ircx and tesx's /prop and /access commands Smile
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puffy_rules
none
none


Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Mar 31, 2011 11:08pm    Post subject: Re: HalfOp. Needed or not? Reply with quote
katsklaw wrote:
Ryan-DM wrote:
EthanB wrote:
Do you think HalfOp is needed? In my opinion it is worthless. Why give somebody op if you don't trust them?


IRC was just fine long before half-op was invented.

Halfop is an extra and very optional mode, and is definitely not necessary. Some of the most successful networks run without it, and the networks that do tend to have it enabled generally have a host of other unnecessary features as well. It's mostly just an extra status symbol than a feature that is integral to running a successful network.


All IRC networks have features that are not needed. However, the main problem with this is that this topic is solely based on opinion and preference.

QuakeNet, UnderNet, DALnet, IRCnet and all those down to even DarkMyst have features that anyone could debate as where it should be optional or even needed.

Personally I don't need any mode not specified in RFC1459, infact, there are some of those that I don't need either. Bans for example, too easy to evade. Chanmode +b is optional in my opinion. We really don't need chanops either. Especially in todays IRC world where every IRC monkey thinks it's the job of IRCops to govern channels anyway.

DCC can be removed .. that's not "needed" IRC is for chatting, not file sharing. Chanmode +e/I .. optional. Services .. not needed. You'd be surprised of exactly how much control a chanop has just by having the channel set +mints/p.

Moral of the story: It's all personal preference, if you as an admin want to have halfops, then have halfops, if you don't like halfops then don't have them .. its just that simple.


I love how you enforce my stale rant about ircops flexing their privs in user owned channels on networks. That shit needs to go, It runs irc users off of networks and gives irc a bad name all around when people run into behavior like this. IRC Monkeys is a very good term for people that conduct themselves in this manner. Although I'm sure I would use something more colorful to describe them mysef....
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Trixar_za
Eleet
Eleet


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 624
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Apr 01, 2011 12:07am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Off-topic, reposting and necromancy? Will you stop at nothing? Wink
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puffy_rules
none
none


Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Apr 01, 2011 12:12am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Trixar_za wrote:
Off-topic, reposting and necromancy? Will you stop at nothing? Wink

Its offtopic to comment on someone elses post (that obviously contained offtopic content as well since I replied to it)? Get bent kiddo. .
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Medusa
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 74
Location: Portsmouth
PostPosted: Apr 01, 2011 4:48am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I personally think it helps the chatters know with a % that the channel op is a newly trained member of the staff team.
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synmuffin
none
none


Joined: 07 Dec 2010
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Apr 02, 2011 6:40am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've always been a believer in the "Keep Things Simple" model, avoid clutter and more little symbols %, ~, ! etc..make me think clutter.

Personally I've always just had Ops, and Voices... that's it, that's all. Keeps things simple, clean... again this is just my personal pref.
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D3M0N
Idler
Idler


Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 296
Location: Myrtle Beach, S.C.
PostPosted: Apr 02, 2011 10:30am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, figured i would stick my head into here...

I believe all ranks that are there... are needed.

A halfop is needed in my opinion. I have always given halfop to people in training so that they dont get full use of all op/sop commands.

As for ~/!, i think users should be able to see who the owner of a channel is when they join
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