oper/admin cert training

katsklaw · Posted: Jul 16, 2009 7:06pm Post subject: oper/admin cert training

Lets move this conversation to here and stop hijacking someone's thread Wink

I'll say that my last reply was from my iPod, so I'll apologize for typos, missed words and spaces ... etc. It's so hard to see a website plus an on screen keyboard on a 3 inch screen Wink

I'd also like to say that there is no concrete, cut and dry way of "qualifying" trainers. Experience alone can't work as some people catch on faster than others. This is why I said it would have to be considered. Simply put, a small network sees hardly anything compared to a large network that has hundreds of thousands of registered nicks and 10's of thousands of services transactions per hour. Case in point an average week of killing clones on DALnet was about 10K clones (this was before session limits btw). There is no way that I've killed remotely close to that many users combined in the years after on other networks.

I do think extensive interviews and everyone getting to know one another is more important that facts about experience.

It's also my intention that the core certification be generic and mainly RFC1459 compliant with a few exceptions. It will not be ircd, client or services specific at all. This will allow trainees to return to their network trained in IRC, network/software specific training would then be up to them. That said, there may be some specialty courses that focus on a certain ircd/services. Admin training would also include netiquette as well as PR training to help better management of personnel. There just wouldn't be any way for us to train for any specific network, sorry. There would also be training on minimalistic control practices and exercises such as using channel modes to control unruly users instead of /kills or talking to malicious users out of their habits instead of /gline. This minimalistic training will help ween admins from the feeling that they need to be all powerful God like opers to handle users.

That said there could be some conflicts between our training and your network. For example, not all IRCd's support local channels anymore, even though it's arguably required by RFC. Additionally some IRCd's don't support /join 0 either, which btw is supposed to part the issuer from all channels. It's a carryover from IRC v1.

ButtaKnife · Newbie Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 93

I voted Yes, but I want to clarify my thoughts on the training/certification idea. I think it would be great to have some kind of training and certification process, and if executed correctly, I would encourage people to go through the process. I can't see our network using it as a "hiring tool" in the sense of making a difference in whether or not we bring someone on staff. For us, the character of the person being considered for staff is far more important than IRC knowledge and experience. I could definitely see the training being used along side of our own training, and it might be neat for everyone on staff to be certified eventually. Razz

An idea struck me last night: It may also be possible for networks to designate their own trainers to handle network-specific certifications. I haven't thought this through yet, so it may be a horrible idea.

In any case, I'm really curious to see where this goes. Very Happy

Drakling · none Joined: 05 Jul 2009 Posts: 24

I somewhat agree with ButtaKnife. I'd definitely use it as a staff training resource. I would also use it as an aid when selecting staff as well. While ButtaKnife was dead on, that the character of the person is the more important than this certification, if you have 2 people with identical character, 1 of them went through this training and certification thing while the other one didn't, I'd definitely pick up the certified applicant first.

Trixar_za · Posted: Jul 17, 2009 2:46pm Post subject:

Drakling · none Joined: 05 Jul 2009 Posts: 24

oh I already know all of that

katsklaw · Posted: Jul 17, 2009 6:38pm Post subject: ?

to be clear, this wouldn't be a replacement for network training but an augmentation.

"hiring tool" meaning those with it have a better chance of winning the "job", not an "OMFG YOU GOTS CERTS?!?!?!?!"

katsklaw · Posted: Aug 03, 2009 7:50am Post subject:

everyone interested in this idea regardless of if you want to help train or want to be trained or interested in training for your staff. Please PM me for more information.

katsklaw · Posted: Aug 03, 2009 12:08pm Post subject:

No offense to anyone that has already replied nor am I implying such. I just want to clarify interest level, I'm looking for those that are actively interested, not those that say they are interested then only appear once every 2 weeks for a few minutes or those that connect and then idle for days on end inserting phrases every couple days.

Thanks

Telume · none Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 46

There's only one reason I wouldn't use it as a hiring pool.

While you can teach someone commands and all that jazz. What you can't teach is how to think.

Sure there are the common situations like drones and spammers. There's always going to be some of those.

But you can't teach someone how to act because, everyone is different. You could be certified, but, every network has their customs that not every other person will like.

And just because you're "certified" doesn't really mean that you're better, sure you may know more, but, you may not fit into the network's overall structure.

In small networks especially people will want a familiar face as an oper not someone who waves around a whole bunch of diplomas going "I'm better than you because I'm certified." Mostly because the person is well-known or familiar and they're deemed by both users and staff as some one who can be trusted.

Just my opinion.

Trixar_za · Posted: Aug 03, 2009 1:24pm Post subject:

I think there is a misunderstanding somewhere, Telume.

Knowing katsklaw, I think he'll focus MORE on training these people to how to think and shape their beliefs rather than just teach them commands. One thing I noticed is that the power crazy people and asses tend to disappear pretty quickly around him because he doesn't put up with their crap and he's good at spotting them early.

This concept aims to teach people to me IRCops - inspite of the network their on or where they come from. Teaching people loads of commands doesn't make them IRCops, just like most MCSE people discover when they get into IT Businesses for real. For somebody to become an true IRCop, you need to teach them how to think, act and react. Then and ONLY then do you teach them the commands.

Anyway, this is my rant for the day Wink

katsklaw · Posted: Aug 03, 2009 3:35pm Post subject:

IRCop - basics will teach commands.
IRCop - advanced will teach basic networking, network routing.
IRCop - CSR will teach professionalism and basic Customer Service.
IRCop - minimalist will teach opers how to use basic user level access as well as skills built in IRCop - CSR to negotiate with attackers without using "hostile force" ie kill/akill/gline.
IRCop - Defense will teach tell tale signs of nasties and eradication.

The IRCop is then certified and returned to their network to attend said networks training programs. It's assumed that the network that sent the oper-to-be already meets that networks "how to think" requirements.

{Admin series can not be taken without an ircop cert code first}
Admin - basics will teach server configuration.
Admin - advanced will teach merging, oper management, issue resolution, ISP reporting and liaison.

The Admin is then certified and returned to their network to attend said networks training programs. It's assumed that the network that sent the admin-to-be already meets that networks "how to think" requirements.

Users that have not been referred by a network will receive the same training and *ALL* users will have additional specialized training made available to them. In the event that any person needs to verify course completion, that information will be made available. No personal information is shared at the time of verification. We will ask the inquiring person the first and last name of the person in question as well as their certification code, which be use to cross reference course completion. Any test scores or other information we gather will be held confidential and not released.

Users, opers and admins that complete training are advised to only share their certification code when they apply for a position and it is requested by the network they are applying to.

It's not my intention to "weed out power hungry assholes". That's the job of individual networks. It's my intention to teach opers and admins how IRC works because I'm personally tired of seeing so called NetAdmins that don't even know the syntax for joining a keyed channel.

How you react to a certified oper/admin that applies for a staff position is your business, not ours.

Telume · none Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 46

katsklaw · Posted: Aug 04, 2009 10:03pm Post subject:

mentor · Posted: Aug 07, 2009 2:10am Post subject:

katsklaw · Posted: Aug 07, 2009 6:44am Post subject: