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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1604
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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 Posted: Feb 23, 2009 11:40am Post subject: |
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| mentor wrote: |
Will most networks grow to the size of say freenode? Probably not if they plan on strictly being an IRC network. |
Which is why I consider it a moot point. All known networks at this time that use a canned ircd will never need the support of a "big net" ircd. There just simply isn't the need. It's like using a race car to drive to work. Will you get there? Sure, it's just not needed. A prime example is the I/O socket engine. Select (default in Unreal IRCd) works just fine for nearly everyone because the load isn't high enough to need a more efficient engine. Unlike DALnet when it wrote Bahamut which uses kqueue by default and is a better engine.
I'd also like to add that if there was a big net ircd that was truly scalable, each network wouldn't need to write their own would they? 
Additionally, all the large networks and even the examples you provided use their own ircd, not a canned ircd like 95%+ of the networks that are known to exist by the general public.
Having exceptions to a rule or statement does not automatically negate said rule or statement. When it's proven to me that a percentage higher than 25% of the sites using IRC for any purpose that does NOT use a custom ircd suddenly needs "big net" scalability, I'll consider changing my opinion.
Choosing an ircd because of it's features or how it fits your network is not the same as wanting the software because some huge net needs it's it for performance.
Anyway, peace!  |
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Stefano
Eleet
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 543
Location: Beirut
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| Posted: Apr 23, 2009 10:09pm Post subject: |
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| so now, besides me who is using nefarious and x3 ? |
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webcoder
Lurker
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Apr 24, 2009 7:07am Post subject: |
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| Stefano wrote: | | so now, besides me who is using nefarious and x3 ? |
If i could ever get it running i would probibly |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1604
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: Apr 24, 2009 7:13am Post subject: |
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| Stefano wrote: | | so now, besides me who is using nefarious and x3 ? |
Since I've read the entire thread, I've counted 5 others including myself. |
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Transfixer
none
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Apr 24, 2009 7:52am Post subject: |
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| I use it too, obviously with a few patches to make it fit the networks' ideas completely... |
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Trixar_za
Eleet
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 613
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Apr 24, 2009 9:25am Post subject: |
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I'll add and say the Nef actually compiles pretty easily compared to other IRCd's, it didn't even need g++ to compile on my Ubuntu server!
I will admit that my previous experience with Unrealircd made me wonder how to start the thing (it installs to the bin folder in your home folder), but after some help in the right direction from PingBad, I happen to find it (so not only am I a ircu newb, I'm blind aswell...).
Anyway, off the bat, Nef is pretty powerfully built with A LOT of options you can turn off and on within the configuration file - I was actually grinning like a idiot because of it. Didn't really take me long to get it up and running (around 5 minutes of quickly doing the config and run), so it's really not that hard to run either. Inside it runs pretty well, give or take a the slight learning curve to using it and X3 together, but all in all, I would say it's an improvement to Unreal for one. |
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Invisible
Idler
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Apr 24, 2009 5:24pm Post subject: |
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| I think the biggest problems with Nef is the lack of extensive documentation. Unreal has such extensive docs that when moving to other suites, they are barren. |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1604
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: Apr 24, 2009 6:58pm Post subject: |
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| Invisible wrote: | | I think the biggest problems with Nef is the lack of extensive documentation. Unreal has such extensive docs that when moving to other suites, they are barren. |
I'd have to disagree. If for no other reason than 99% of Unreal admins don't read the docs anyway. That aside EvilNet has docs on their website to explain all the conf options. Granted it doesn't come with the ircd or whatever. The P10 protocol is documented at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlo17/irc/P10.html. Not to mention that just because an ircd lacks documentation is not a very good reason to not use it. Do you honestly think that Unreal would be less popular if it lacked documentation??? .. hardly. There are documented features that most have no clue exist.
Additionally, I'll give you that docs are important, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the functionality of the ircd/protocol. |
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Invisible
Idler
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Apr 24, 2009 7:08pm Post subject: |
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Well, for those that do want to read them, it is slightly more difficult. I shouldn't have to go to 3 different places to get all of the documentation for an ircd package. I'm not saying I personally have not been able to install or use it without docs as I have, however, as far as other admins, a possible reason for not running it could include this.
I think that if unreal had the same docs as Nef, that they would not have grown as popular as they are now, at least not as fast.
I do agree, it does not have anything to do with the functionality, but more the popularity. |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1604
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: Apr 24, 2009 7:24pm Post subject: |
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I still have to disagree about the docs being related to growth. Sure, there are some like you or I that appreciate good documentation. But we are so far and few in between that we'd hardly make a bit of difference. So I think that Unreal would be nearly as big if not as big without such complete documentation.
Ironiclly, IMHO the best documented ircd protocol is Inspircd. Most of Unreals docs are about installing and configuring. Even the Unrealircd protocol docs are lacking when compared to Inspircd, yet Inspircd is far behind in total number of nets/servers. |
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Invisible
Idler
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Apr 24, 2009 7:58pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, but for the majority of administrators, do they not only install and config their IRCD? Most that make up those numbers don't do much more than install and never touch it again. Which is why I still think it has an effect on the growth of Unreal. |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1604
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: Apr 25, 2009 7:35am Post subject: |
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One would think so, however based on my experience in end-user support over the years, most admins don't bother reading the docs at all or very little. They are more worried about getting it running so they can "be the boss". I've seen a large number of admins that don't even bother to read the questions during ./Config on Unreal .. they just hit enter all the way through and accept the defaults. Some like the defaults, some accept the defaults because they think that's all there is.
Granted there are several that don't follow that trend, a few of them will read the entire documentation and a few want all the docs to be centralized for their convenience, a few don't mind going to 2-3 places but I still think that the vast majority don't. |
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Jobe
Eleet
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 526
Location: Lurking in the shadows of some random channel!
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Stefano
Eleet
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 543
Location: Beirut
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| Posted: May 02, 2009 3:48pm Post subject: |
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| katsklaw whats ur net? |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1604
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: May 02, 2009 4:19pm Post subject: |
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| Stefano wrote: | | katsklaw whats ur net? |
It's temporarily offline due to hosting issues. My former net is CollectiveIRC which is also Nef/X3 |
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