Cookie cutter networks

dusk · none Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 3

So I've coined an all inclusive term for every network using unreal/ultimateircd (or anything based upon such) with epona or anope or some similar services package. Just how many of these are there, the only things setting them apart being the different set of admins and opers? Is this diffusion of hundreds of like networks preventing genuinely unique and original networks from being taken seriously during their early phases?
Why, I remember a time when every network had a programmer who developed their own stuff, and put an awful lot of time and effort into that sort of thing. Could it be that this generation of irc admins has given up on originality, technical superiority, and developing good quality open source chat programs? Could it be that they simply have no desire to better themselves through hard work and trying to stand out from the crowd? Have they fallen content with being simply what they are, not gaining userbases, going nowhere?
</rant about today's generation>

moonman · Lurker Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 212

could it be that everyone doesn't have the technical resources to do what they'd like? could it be that unreal/anope actually aren't all that bad? could it be that its just genuinely hard as hell to start a network?

COULD IT BE?

zeke · Idler Joined: 04 Oct 2003 Posts: 334

No, its impossible! Didn't you know that every person is a born C/C++ programmer, and gets an A in PHP/Perl scripting at age 7, the smart ones getting it the year before, and Unreal/Anope/Epona aren't good at all....which is why so many use them including myself (not Epona..)

And didn't you know? As soon as you open port 6667 on an IP address is gets flooded with connections from good legit users.
</sarcasm>

Yes Moonman I agree with you =)

Howard · none Joined: 16 Nov 2003 Posts: 34

Reminds me of the folks at Microport when I was talking to them about all the apps that wouldn't run on their 'binary compatible' Unix os.

"Hey, you got the os up and running, what the hell more do you want?"

The name of *this* game is not to run the biggest, neatest, fastest etc irc network with all the bellzenwhistles that anyone can possibly dream up.

The name of the game is to gather a bunch of folks of like mind and let them form a community without physical limits. In years past it was done with handwritten mail. Then came BBS's that let folks exchange text with a 24-hour plus-or-minus turnaround. Now it's irc and IM and webboards and such.

Technology is nothing without producing something that changes folks' lives, that gives them something they wouldn't have without the tech. I'll settle for what works well enough to make a difference in folks' lives, and until it's broke I ain't fixing it.

dusk · none Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 3

Ah, but what about personal development? Fact is most of these networks don't have niches as Howard's obviously does, which is one thing unto itself. However, those that don't aren't providing anything that isn't already provided. Why re-invent the wheel without improving upon it? I guess my primary point in this rant is to point out that there are an awful lot of people and networks out there content with mediocrity, with no desire to innovate. Do they know C programming now? Maybe not. Can they learn it? Sure. And that's personal development, in addition to innovating the world of the internet to the benefit of all involved.

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 696

dusk, we get about 60 - 100 new networks submitted every week, and most of them TRY to serve a niche market.

Its rather interesting for those of us who expected IRC to grow more unified and international in scope to see the exact opposite happening. While the major networks do experience steady strong growth, low cost shells and programs such as Unreal are allowing literally anyone to open an IRC network much as they would launch their own website. Locations new to the internet are well represented in the list of new networks - for example, small Albanian communities and Bangladesh students have their own networks - as are groups that share special interests - we list networks for sport kiting, and equestrians and scouting - and groups of friends of all ages who just want to hang out together.

There are networks that fail because they don't attract enough users to support them... or someone else is doing it better than they are... but that's the way of the world.

modernboy · none Joined: 30 Aug 2003 Posts: 3

You'll likely see the movement from large networks to smaller ones ebb and flow. Just as computer hardware shifted from the mainframe to the desktop and now to somewhere in between, IRC networks will settle into a mid-size range. The factors that drive this movement are services and cost. Right now the cost (and knowledge) to run a small network with simple services is low, which makes it easier for network operators to choose small networks. The small networks are successful because users correctly see few differences between large and small; they both offer similar services.

Larger networks will need to invest in new service development before the trend shifts back toward them again. Some are willing to do this, others are not. Those that will not would likely lose their most valuable resource, their programmers, to mid-sized and small startup networks. The large networks have the experience and knowledge that allows them the leverage and leeway to try new things and make mistakes without too much compromise to the quality of basic performance. Large networks that take advantage of this will succeed through innovation.

In the next few years we'll see more IRC services related to other areas of internet development. An increasingly larger group of developers that grew up on IRC see its potential as a central tool for social network building and collaboration. Small networks geared toward alpha geeks are leading the way. Social software developers that build innovative IRC bridges from other internet realms create new and more effective uses for IRC. As with early IRC bots and their relationship to chanserv, nickserv, memoserv and seenserv, new IRC bot and client features that improve community collaboration (and extend it beyond IRC) will make the best new IRC network services. SearchIRC is a perfect example. Its whois, directory and mychannel features will become increasingly successful as they develop stronger real-time bonds to actual IRC network services. The net has been reaching toward IRC with things like SearchIRC, java and cgi clients; hopefully IRC will reach back.

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

The other main issue with larger networks is the fact alot of major ISPs won't be providing them with free servers anymore.

Take a look at IRCJunkie this week-EFnet and undernet both lost a few servers due to a few ISPs having 'enough' with attacks and stuff-it may soon become an age where the largest networks have to work like the smaller ones-paying for boxes and bandwith. This may be a 'reality shock' to some that are used to only having to pay for webhosting and domain name services-its a shame that it has to come to this, because the ones who attack larger IRC networks are to blame-but if the trend continues, soon alot of those networks will have to make major server investments-or be forced to shrink because the amount of free servers provided to them by ISPs will shrink as ISPs "throw in the towel".

These smaller networks should make sure they are ready for this-right now there isn't much impact, I'm sure EFnet and Undernet can handle what they have minus 2-3 servers, but if this trend continues, soon people will be looking to other networks simply because those networks will be 'too full' during major times. Some channels may be forced to go multi-network in order to ensure their users can get on during peak hours.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes the major networks to resort to some sort of fundraising or banner usage on their sites in order to pay for services they now get for free. Hopefully some of them already pay for some of thier services-or this is going to be a shock to them. I'm sure EfNet and Undernet, though they won't say this publically-are stinging from the fact that AOL yanked thier servers this week-sure, make all the jokes about AOL you want, but those servers each held at least 10,000 users locally-thats a 10,000 user capacity dent in both of those networks now. Other servers will have to step up and take the load on those networks. I don't know how close either of them run to the 'edge' of capacity, but I'm sure those departures didn't help in that department.

Its really a shame that some people who choose to attack networks cause this stuff to happen-but I think the day of an IRC network going to an ISP and winning a 5000 local user 'sponsored' server are over.

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 696

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

True, true.

Goes to show that the attackers aren't always the most childish sometimes....

AWoL · Guest

Dusk check out Sexnet if you want to see a niche market. We have made services 'unique' to say the least even tho we use unreal. Just a bunch of adults (hopefully) talking about adult things.

moonman · Lurker Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 212

ahah i checked out that net like 3 years ago when pimpwar was hosted there. they are another cool "niche" network now that they have their own server.

FrostByghte · none Joined: 05 Dec 2003 Posts: 4

I've founded two irc networks. Stratics IRC and now Coldfront. On Stratics we had programmers come and go and honestly it was a complete pain to deal with them. Unreal offers the features that Stratics struggled to keep updated while using Bahamut. I know Unreal isn't for everyone, but I think the niche IRC Networks are really what will keep this medium alive and well. Both Stratics and Coldfront have niche MMO gamers on them, though Coldfront seems to be devloping more into a private Guild IRC network.

I can also say that the smaller IRC networks are a lot more enjoyable to work on than anything with 1000+ users.

anifinder · none Joined: 14 Oct 2003 Posts: 28

In my opinion, the networks that will thrive the most in the next few years will be the ones that can integrate. Integrating into the web, especially. SearchIRC has taken a huge step in providing people ways for gathering information about IRC from the web, but I think that in the coming decade we'll see an explosion of new IRC-based technologies that will tie a number of different systems into chatting. IRC-based in-game chats, for example, that allow you to sit on an IRC channel and play a first-person shooter simultaneously. Another example (and this is a good ways off) would be being able to use SMS to check your MemoServ memos from a cell phone. I think that the ability to integrate will become a defining factor of IRC networks, and the networks that are the best at it, will do better.

Wiggle · Newbie Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 81

If you look at some games, they already have the ability to let you chat on IRC. Say, for example Uplink (Check screenshot: http://www.introversion.co.uk/cgi-bin/screenshots.cgi?pic=nakatomi2.jpg Razz

).

Though I dunno about memo checking through your mobile phone. I think that's too far fetched, IRC would have to become WAY more popular. But it could happen. (Not the way it's looking right now though, with all the warez and attacks.)

My 2 cents