Middle East

Stefano · Eleet Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 543 Location: Beirut

Just wondering.. anyone around from the middle east or south eastern europe?? "greece, turkey, syria, lebanon, israel or palestine, jordan, egypt.. passing by armenia and iran"

ORenyRen · none Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 38

Last I heard, there has never been a sovereign [sp?] nation called Palestine.
I don't live in Israel, but I will be visiting it this summer Very Happy

codemastr · Idler Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 345

WhaLberg · Posted: May 20, 2005 5:42am Post subject:

I am TURK! I am proud of being a TURK.

Guest · Posted: May 20, 2005 11:41am Post subject:

What if the poster asked to hear from people in North America - Canada, United States, Aztlan, or Mexico. Would you be surprised to hear someone say "Wait a minute, Aztlan is not a sovereign nation!"

If you feel there is an argument in this thread, then it was not started by the correction, but in the original political statement.

codemastr · Idler Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 345

Daemon · none Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 4

Greece here Smile

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 696

codemastr, I don't know where you are getting your information, but it is incorrect. There are 93 nations - mostly arab countries - that recognize the Palestinian Authority. The PA claims a "state" it does not control, which is comprised of Israel, the Gaza Strip, and Palestine. You most likely do not remember the endless negotiations with Arafat over the formation of a Palestinian state in the last half of the 1900's, but he repeatedly rejected agreements unless they included the entirety of Israel. Look at the documents coming out of the PA - their maps show Palestine covering ALL of Israel. No matter what they WANT to do, or how they would LIKE it to be, or how they think it SHOULD be, the PA does not control the territory they claim as a state. The area known as Palestine has been Israeli since the British Mandate.

From an online encyclopedia:

The State of Palestine was unilaterally proclaimed on November 15, 1988, by the Palestinian National Council, the legislative body of the PLO, in Tunis. At the time, the PLO did not have control over any part of Palestine (or any other territory), and therefore the State of Palestine did not fulfill one of the typical requirements for an autonomous state - namely, being in possession of sovereign territory. However, the declaration laid claim to the whole of Palestine, as defined by the British Mandate of Palestine, which includes the whole of Israel.

The State of Palestine was recognized immediately by the Arab League and many other countries; about half of the world's countries recognize it today. The State maintains embassies in these countries (which are generally Palestine Liberation Organization delegations).

The State of Palestine is not currently recognized by the United Nations or by any Cold-War-era NATO country. However, some European Union countries (including the United Kingdom) maintain diplomatic ties with the Palestinian Authority, established under the auspices of the Oslo Accords.

The 2003 Road map for peace calls for a series of steps, each contingent on the previous steps, leading to the establishment of a Palestinian state. Included among these steps is dismantling of Palestinian terrorist groups by the Palestinian Authority. Additional steps are required of both Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

Roku · Newbie Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Posts: 92

This slays me ... we run out of IRC related issues to argue about so we have to choose something else. Like rather Palestine is a recognized nation or not.

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 696

LOL, true Raku. I was merely agreeing with ORenyRen that there was an orange in there with all the apples. But its really irrelevant to me whether Palestine (or Aztlan, for that matter) becomes a separate nation. Its not the flag flying overhead, its the people standing under it that make the difference.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Ben Franklin

Roku · Newbie Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Posts: 92

lol, May I add my definition of diplomacy as being able to say "nice doggie" until you find a big stick. Very Happy

Stefano · Eleet Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 543 Location: Beirut

codemastr · Idler Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 345

Mregit, not a single word of what you said is relevant. All it really was was an attempt to insult me by basically trying to say that I don't have a clue what I'm talking about when in fact I'm quite familiar with Middle Eastern affairs.

But as I said, your comments are completely and totally irrelevant. The issue here is that there was never any reason to bring up sovereignty because no one was talking about it! A guy was simply looking for people in his part of the world. He wasn't looking for someone to bring up the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

Oh and just for the record, I got a good laugh at you citing wikipedia as an "encyclopedia." Do that for scholarly research and you'll be laughed right off the stage! *MUCH* of what you find on wikipedia is false. I know of people who go to wikipedia and spend hours each day inputting false, but believable, information just to screw with people. For all you know the text you quoted was from a reputable source, then changed slightly by some 13 year old so that it is no longer correct (dates altered, etc.), then submitted to wikipedia.

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 696

Codemastr, lets cut to the chase here. You accused ORenyRen of trying to start an argument. When a regular on our boards points at another poster and implies he is a troll, that catches my attention. I looked into it and I do not agree with you. I don't see anything inflamatory or baiting in ORenyRen's post. Every preschooler comes home with books listing 4 animals and a fruit, asking which one doesn't belong. Palestine stood out from Stefano's list as "different". To many people in the world it is an important difference.

Referring to my post. The first paragraph is in my own words, the online encyclopedia I quoted is a subscription site, not Wikipedia. But its good to hear they are copying from reputable sources these days.

In any case, I was not trying to insult you then, and I am not trying to insult you now. I consider you a valued and knowledgable member of this forum.

PingBad · Posted: May 21, 2005 8:17am Post subject:

well, this has spun off topic, no doubts there.
but codemastr is right in the fact that Stefano was just enquiring about people from the middle eastern sector of Earth and more than likely didn't need to see a debate over the Israeli-Palestinian disputes.