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Ashen
Idler
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 284
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 Posted: Apr 18, 2005 12:16pm Post subject: Undernet opers gline *@* |
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Today, I found that I couldn't connect to Undernet at all. No surprise, they have frequent problems. This one goes beyond the normal, though.
---------- LOGS #1 ----------
<+Loki> 13:[sanjose] -!- Irssi: Looking up sanjose.ca.us.undernet.org
<+Loki> 13:[sanjose] -!- Irssi: Connecting to sanjose.ca.us.undernet.org [216.152.77.10] port 6667
<+Loki> 13:[sanjose] -!- Irssi: Connection to sanjose.ca.us.undernet.org established
<+Loki> 13:[sanjose] !sanjose.ca.us.undernet.org *** Looking up your hostname
<+Loki> 13:[sanjose] !sanjose.ca.us.undernet.org *** Checking Ident
<+Loki> 13:[sanjose] !sanjose.ca.us.undernet.org *** Found your hostname
<+Loki> 13:[sanjose] !sanjose.ca.us.undernet.org *** Got ident response
<+Loki> 13:[sanjose] -!- [0] infected! Advertising infecting web sites. Clean this computer! http://www.moosoft.com
<+Loki> http://housecall.trendmicro.com/.
<+Loki> 13:[sanjose] -!- ERROR Closing Link: Loki by SanJose.CA.us.undernet.org (G-lined)
<+Loki> 13:[sanjose] -!- Irssi: Connection lost to sanjose.ca.us.undernet.org
< kev0r> Loki: calm down :)
< Rawnblade> heh
< Rawnblade> who cares about undernet anymore anyway?
<+Loki> kik
<+Loki> i do not use it
< kev0r> haha you g0t sh1t on ur pc
<+Loki> i just think it is funny
<+Loki> kev0r: umm
<+Loki> i am connecting via alpaha
< Rawnblade> kev0r: try it yourself, everyone is g-lined
< Rawnblade> *!*@*
< kev0r> oh hehehe
< Rawnblade> heh
< kev0r> why that?
-!- lockey [~lockey@bdv139.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
< Rawnblade> i dunno
< kev0r> so lame, i've ident installed, finally and now i wanna test if i can go on undernet
<+Loki> lol
< Keltus> Undernet is split into 3
<+Loki> lol
-!- lockey [~lockey@bew154.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #aeshells
< belter> in undernet, to set a G-line (global ip address based ban) requires an admin from 3 different regions to approve. someone said someone on undernet wrote a faulty g-line that banned the world, and two other opers seconded it, so it went through at that moment, undernet tanked
< Rawnblade> belter: where did you find that?
< belter> efnet is having excitement this morning when two
< belter> different irc server codebases had incompatibilities
< belter> with each other (there are 3 or 4 different kinds of irc
-!- lockey [~lockey@bew154.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
< belter> servers allowed on efnet)
< belter> an efnet global op was saying that
----------- LOGS #2 -----------
-!- ash__ [ashen@runering.themlg.net] has joined #help
[Users #help]
[@c-wolf ] [ anjuta ] [ dj` ] [ hunterkil] [ ogR1sH ] [ Stretch ]
[@Eenie ] [ arminel ] [ dz ] [ Hydragon ] [ Opeth ] [ TheJudge ]
[@jail ] [ ash__ ] [ Eledhel ] [ istara ] [ PITBALL ] [ Tincan ]
[@Primus ] [ bigbadwolf] [ Faat ] [ jimmy2x ] [ Preferences ] [ tyty ]
[@tommyTee ] [ BluScooby ] [ fuzion ] [ kasa ] [ pryzzy ] [ VanHellsoN]
[@Tornado ] [ cableguy ] [ gagicu}{suk] [ mattimus ] [ RaHMeTLee ] [ war ]
[@X ] [ Ceninant ] [ hamzaajc ] [ Ma|u ] [ Rhadamanthin] [ WarKosign ]
[ ^gaMer^ ] [ Cesar ] [ hay ] [ Minos ] [ SatanTeekay ] [ zipchick ]
[ `^_prince`] [ Crazednut ] [ HelpBot ] [ MrSlave ] [ Scorpiono ] [ |jks ]
[ `Wanted`` ] [ Dark^K|D ] [ hemstock ] [ Nhiec ] [ Secup ] [ }{obbes ]
[ AMSG ] [ DataGhost ] [ honeymann ] [ Nicklen ] [ Softtop_ ]
-!- Irssi: #help: Total of 65 nicks [7 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 58 normal]
-!- piefreak [~piefreak@cpe-065-187-208-168.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #help
-!- becax [~bcx@202.81.59.194] has joined #help
-!- chrise [~chrise@user-0c8hs23.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #help
-!- WickedKlown [Snake@0-1pool109-172.nas2.mobile1.al.us.da.qwest.net] has joined #help
-!- _josh [jdh28@deported.us] has joined #help
-!- conceited [~1832aa3f@host157.toad-host.com] has joined #help
-!- Sharon[brb] [Sharon95@pcp09209116pcs.pimaco01.az.comcast.net] has joined #help
-!- fuz-work [~abbazabba@68.166.219.28] has joined #help
-!- adr|aNNa__ [adr_aNNa__@82.208.158.42] has joined #help
-!- CMonkeyDo [CMD@S01060001032c8608.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #help
-!- seekhim [~colin@static24-72-11-202.reverse.accesscomm.ca] has joined #help
-!- HunterPro [sjaak@is-wel-eens-een.student.utwente.nl] has joined #help
-!- mode/#help [+l 79] by X
-!- Channel #help created Wed Feb 15 16:1995
-!- josh` [~jdh28@acs-24-239-223-20.zoominternet.net] has joined #help
< Cesar> O_O
-!- Irssi: Join to #help was synced in 5 secs
< hamzaajc> because the person who registered failed to login
< hamzaajc> how could i knw the status if all the supporter sent yes o support
-!- istara [~istara@217.165.74.39] has quit [Ping timeout]
-!- Spencer [poop@adsl-64-160-76-115.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net] has joined #help
< Cesar> YAY!!!!!!!
-!- RaHMeTLee [~tikky@85.96.157.212] has quit [Signed off]
< Cesar> [03:11] --- You have been killed by SanJose.CA.us.undernet.org ((older nick overruled))
< Cesar> :]
-!- mode/#help [+r] by jail
< ash__> can someone please explain to me the truth behind the rumour that undernet glined *@*
-!- ogR1sH is now known as Magog
<@Tornado> ash__, we know nothing
< hay> hack
< hay> i think
-!- mmmmmm [m@reki.rh.rit.edu] has joined #help
< Nicklen> ash__: we have nothing to do with it. sorry for the inconvenience . the msg was just a fake msg
-!- _josh is now known as __josh
< BluScooby> ash__ it was a miss type
-!- |jks is now known as jks
-!- hay was kicked from #help by jail [Go go gadget army boot!]
<@tommyTee> hamzaajc login on http://cservice.undernet.org/live/ - 'check app' - the ones with green have supported.
<@Eenie> ash__ .. no need... it was a mistake, is all
-!- Magog [~snake@pD9E7FB26.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #help []
-!- mode/#help [-r] by jail
-!- hay [~wuw@actserv.net] has joined #help
< ash__> Eenie: so it DID happen?
< hay> ? :S
-!- diana69 [~diana_nan@82.77.238.21] has joined #help
< Cesar> Looks like everything's back to normal. XD
< Cesar> Or just about.
< diana69> SALUT
-!- mode/#help [+l 81] by X
-!- WarKosign [~none@WarKosign.users.undernet.org] has left #help []
-!- Spencer [poop@adsl-64-160-76-115.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: EOF from client]
-!- __josh [jdh28@deported.us] has quit [G-lined ([6] Automatically banned for excessive connections)]
< Nicklen> Cesar: do u have any questions?
< fuz-work> welcome back sanjose
-!- manon38 [~manonmari@67.68.123.122] has joined #help
< Nicklen> diana69: hi
<@Eenie> ash__ .. just go enjoy Undernet
-!- AMSG [~PSA@81.247.85.184] has left #help []
< Cesar> Nope, I'm done. XD
-!- Spencer [poop@adsl-64-160-76-115.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net] has joined #help
< ash__> OK........ as far as I know....... on undernet........ it takes 3 opers to independently OK a gline....... if it really happened, does this
mean that 3 opers all agreed to gline *@* at once? If so, why?
-!- manon38 [~manonmari@67.68.123.122] has left #help []
-!- mode/#help [+b *!*@*.themlg.net] by jail
-!- ash__ was kicked from #help by jail [Why me?] |
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Ashen
Idler
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 12:20pm Post subject: |
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Ok..... putting aside:
1) the first comment by an op in #help on undernet is "we know nothing".
2) nobody tells me who is responsible, the best response I get was that it was a mistake. There's never even direct confirmation it happened, just the admission of a small mistake...
Sure sounds like spin to me..... proclaim the good, hide the bad..... if pressed on the bad bits, massively understate what happened, and change topic as fast as possible.
3) instead of asking me to leave, they kickban me and ban my primary domain, simply for asking a question in the #help channel.... which, of course, they don't answer!
Undernet help channels :
1) "we know nothing"
2) we won't answer your question directly
3) we won't admit our own mistakes
4) we will ignore difficult or embarassing questions
5) we will kickban anyone who demands an actual *answer* to their question.
My question here is just one word.... WHY?
If as users have told me, it takes 3 independent opers to agree to a gline on undernet, then wtf were these opers doing glining *@*?
I can see some possible ways this could turn out not to be the dumbest thing I've seen in a long while..... but they're pretty unlikely....
I've stayed away from Undernet for a long time now due to the culture of stupidity present there, but this latest event takes the cake! I had thought at least the opers were sensible :-/
I may be wrong, it may be that the opers were sensible and did what really was the best thing in the circumstances, or that they just made a minor mistake........ but on the face of it, it looks like they did something seriously dumb. Not just the operators either...... I'm very unimpressed with the quality of that 'help' channel too :-/
Yes, this is a partial flame...... I really don't like Undernet at all, due the countless idiots get coming to my network to beg for things, most of whom seem to come from Undernet. I've held Undernet in very low regard for a long time now, but this latest incident just makes me wonder...... previously, I thought it was the users there who had no clue...... now I wonder if even the operators are awake. I'm annoyed.......... partly at Undernet, partly at their 'helpers' who are extremely unhelpful, and partly with the wider IRC community, for not already demanding an answer from Undernet as to how this seemingly huge mistake happened.
-Ashen
Last edited by Ashen on Apr 18, 2005 12:28pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Roku
Newbie
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 12:23pm Post subject: |
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| Perhaps it's best to take your issue to UnderNet Staff, since it's not likely to be solved here. |
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Ashen
Idler
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 12:33pm Post subject: |
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When I looked #cservice was full (they weren't accepting any new users).
I then tried to join #help, which you can see the results of above.
I then tried to join #undernethelp...... which was practically emtpy.
Yes, contacting the staff is all well and good...... but they sure don't make it easy!
Besides which, part of my intention with this topic is to hold Undernet accountable for this huge screwup of theirs (if indeed it was as bad as it seemed to be)....... and I feel only asking a public 'why' will accomplish that. I'm normally a lot nicer then this, I'm just really annoyed such as large, populated network can make such huge screwups as this and still keep their users, when imho, there are much more deserving networks out there that don't screw up like Undernet does.
Anyway...... :
1) GRRR!
and
2) Why?
-Ashen
Last edited by Ashen on Apr 18, 2005 12:43pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Roku
Newbie
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 12:38pm Post subject: |
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It may be difficult but compare your rate of success.
Contacting them may be hard, but there is a chance.
Bringing your net specific issues here yields a 0% chance of help. |
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Ashen
Idler
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 12:43pm Post subject: |
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Oh, and with regard to other channels, here's a quote I just saw :
< Virtual> Ashen: yeah right, they said BUG after that mistake, and now they kicked everybody from #zT (the opless help channel) and set +i
Yes, I can see why they did this. They don't want to be flooded with newbies asking wtf happened.
But at the same time, the userbase as a whole deserves an explanation of this massive screwup. Their attitude so far seems to be "we'll screw up as much as we like, and ban you if you ask for an explanation."........ imho, that is no way to treat your users.
They owe their userbase at least an explanation of what happened, and, imho, an apology from the oper that did it. A long time ago, I was on a small network in which an oper made the mistake, of glining *@* due to a typo in his script. He tried as hard as possible to fix it, and when it was fixed, he offered to give up his oline forever, and generally take whatever punishment was deemed suitable. THAT is the kind of "I admit I made a mistake, I'm sorry" attitude I'd dearly like to see from Undernet........ currently, they seem to give off the attitude of "we don't owe our users apology or explanation, or even the basic courtesy of listening to them...... even after we screw up and solely because of our fault, gline everyone."
I realise that it's their network to run as they wish, I don't want to be trying to tell them they're bound in any way to behave well......... I just lament the fact they act this way :-/
It's little wonder some of the admins I know refer to them as :"the lamest people alive".
-Ashen
(this post probably comes off a lot harsher then it's meant to..... if undernet apologised and explained what happened, I'd be happy.... I'm more mad at them for their attitude about it then what actually happened. I know everyone makes mistakes and that's fine, it's when people make huge mistakes and then ignore everyone after doing it, that I get annoyed) |
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Asmo
none
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 2:28pm Post subject: |
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Who the blip are you to expect an answer right at the moemnt when you expect an answer while everyone who is actually INVOLVED with the network is trying to fix the network?
People should think before writing up the stuff like you did above. Who are you to complain? What did you ever do to improve Undernet?
Ask your money back if you dont agree with the service if you are not contributing yourself.
Oh yeah.. I forgot, its a free service held up by volunteers and coders who do it in their free time as well.
Sorry we werent able to hand you out all the information you needed right when you expected it from us (togheter with the thousands of others who would like to know what was up, but WHERE patient enough and gave us the time to fix things).
And oh, the oper in question is feeling VERY badly I can assure you, but is also one of the hardest working people on the network, and respected highly for the work being done by everyone that knows the oper in question.
Repect is not soemthing I can bring up for people like you however. Anyway, I posted on IRCJunkie when I was able to, in situations as they occured today, certain tasks simply have priorities over other tasks. Maybe next time you can be a little more understanding and be less self centric. |
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Desolate
none
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 2:55pm Post subject: |
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| There was no Gline on *@*, obviously, no one's that idiotic. From what I know, someone accidentally (via a copy-paste typo) glined *@.1.1.1 causing * to get glined, it's an ircu bug. |
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Jason
SearchIRC Developer
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 1484
Location: Tampa, FL
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 3:12pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, Uworld would reject a gline request for *@* if you tried. |
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ShelLuser
none
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 3:26pm Post subject: |
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21:38 <@hikari> Someone cocked up a gline.
21:38 <@hikari> And the code in gnuworld that should of caught it, didn't.
21:38 <@hikari> Because someone broke half of it recently.
As seen on #linuxhelp earlier this evening.
IMO the whole Undernet setup is heading into a downwards spiral fast these days. On one side you have quite a large amount of opers (some of them very qualified and who know their shit) who got removed, on the other side they leave opers around who are, hmm, "not on the same level". I can't get into the issue of "why" those people were removed, but the rumours which go around worry me.
Unfortunatly I tend to agree with the OP here. Undernet isn't the place it once was. While I can understand their display of "arrogance" most of the time (its often not as bad as it looks IMO) I also begin to think some people are beginning to overdo it big time. Like the DDoSS attack last year which managed to level the entire network for 30 minutes...
When you look at those stories and then take note of this thread (to name but one of them) I can't help wonder...
Sad..
Esp. if you consider that the actual cause is likely to be a combination of the ongoing ddoss onslaughts and the way management picks it up. |
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braindigitalis
Idler
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 443
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 3:37pm Post subject: |
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| Desolate wrote: | | There was no Gline on *@*, obviously, no one's that idiotic. From what I know, someone accidentally (via a copy-paste typo) glined *@.1.1.1 causing * to get glined, it's an ircu bug. |
are servers ever taken down to patch such bugs? I know its harder to take down larger networks for upgrades even incrementally, i struggle enough to maintain the 9 servers on chatspike, but i'd say that the probabilty of making such a typo is rather likely, and i certainly feel sorry for the poor person who did it, after all unless he was a developer of ircu he wouldnt have known what it was going to do anway  |
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Ashen
Idler
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 5:32pm Post subject: |
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| Asmo wrote: | | Who the blip are you to expect an answer right at the moemnt when you expect an answer while everyone who is actually INVOLVED with the network is trying to fix the network? |
I don't expect one now.... but I would appreciate one sooner or later.
I'd also expect them to do something very basic to let their users know, something like put what happened in their network channel topics, so users weren't completely in the dark.
| Asmo wrote: |
People should think before writing up the stuff like you did above. Who are you to complain? What did you ever do to improve Undernet?
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I used to run a large channel on Undernet. We had continual problems with X and with a particular user who ran a spambot that joined random, high usercount channels on undernet and spammed them with our channel name. The result of this was that we got ourselves flooded by tons of users from all over undernet who thought we were responsible for the spam, when we weren't.
His tactic was to use innocent channels as weapons against us, annoying both us and the channels concerned. I think we managed to get him glined *once*..... but the rest of the time, the undernet staff never bothered doing anything. We kept on asking... providing logs.... trying to help them catch this guy and stop both the spam on Undernet and also the attacks on our channel..... but it diddn't work.
Unfortunately, he used a common ISP, and Undernet was not willing to gline his addresses as to do that would also ban innocent users. They refused to even gline his IP for a short time, to send him the message that they knew and what he was doing was unacceptable. IMHO, trying to help out the network by reporting and providing logs of a spambot, and then being told the network won't do anything about it, is very discouraging.
We, and many others, were having problems with this guy and his spambots...... and we diligently reported it all to the Undernet staff, both to help ourselves and to stop the bot spamming other channels. We were almost completely ignored. It gave many of us the feeling that even if you run a large channel on Undernet, the staff still don't care.
Other times, I was tracking down abusers who attacked me, and, surprise surprise, they hailed from packet kiddie groups on Undernet. I reported these groups to the Undernet staff, who have basically told me "we know they're there and we intentionally avoid doing anything about it becuase we're afraid of them". That shattered my illusions about admins using 'best practice'.
In short, I used to use Undernet, but after awhile of trying to be helpful and getting the impression most of the ops there just don't care at all...... I felt sad for the place and I left.
Never say that I diddn't try to help / contribute. I did! For a long time..... but eventually, after so many times of being either ignored, or told "we know this already, but we're not doing anything about it."........ I stopped caring. I stopped trying to help them out, becuase I figured, if they diddn't even want to respond to me when I was going out of my way to help them out....... I shouldn't bother trying to help them.
| Asmo wrote: |
Ask your money back if you dont agree with the service if you are not contributing yourself.
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I tried to contribute. For quite awhile. I was brushed off, ignored, and generally treated like I had somehow insulted them by doing them a favour. Eventually I left.
I don't mind that so much, they're never obligated to accept others help. I do think though, that if their attitude now is the same as it was then, I can see why people are turning to other networks.
| Asmo wrote: |
Oh yeah.. I forgot, its a free service held up by volunteers and coders who do it in their free time as well.
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Just because something is 'free' does not mean it is 'good'!
I respect the fact they provide a free service, but that does not mean I am under any obligation to withhold criticism if I feel it would do them good. I realised they'd never listen though, and so gave up trying to say anything a long time ago. Since then, my only interaction with Undernet has been in the capacity of dealing with the problems that come to me from there.
I've been away from Undernet for a long while now..... on the principle that I prefer to put my effort into furthering things I like rather then bashing things I don't like.
This incident pushed me over the line though. I went on undernet, simply to ask what happened, and I feel like their help staff were of the opinion such questions simply don't deserve an answer!
| Asmo wrote: |
Sorry we werent able to hand you out all the information you needed right when you expected it from us (togheter with the thousands of others who would like to know what was up, but WHERE patient enough and gave us the time to fix things).
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I don't expect to get a personal reply. TBH, I would have been happy with anything, a notice on the Undernet site, a entrymessage on their help channels..... a wallops..... anything. I realise running a network is tough. I realise they put their time and effort into it and are to be commended for that..... but still, I think that the impression they give is that they just don't care at all about their users. It might not be true, they might care an awful lot, but the impression I get, and the impression many people I know get, is that they simply do not care about their users at all. It may be false, but that's the common perception.
| Asmo wrote: |
And oh, the oper in question is feeling VERY badly I can assure you, but is also one of the hardest working people on the network, and respected highly for the work being done by everyone that knows the oper in question.
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I can imagine. The problem Undernet has is that since it's so big..... nobody knows the staff. If the staff simply walloped "we made a mistake, about the mass ban. It's been fixed now. Sorry. Please tell anyone who comes on later and asks why they were disconnected."...... then all would be well. I've talked with some admins on Undernet...... they appear to be decent folks. The problem is that they appear to just not care.
| Asmo wrote: |
Repect is not soemthing I can bring up for people like you however. Anyway, I posted on IRCJunkie when I was able to, in situations as they occured today, certain tasks simply have priorities over other tasks. Maybe next time you can be a little more understanding and be less self centric.
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That's ok :) I respect you for the work you do, and I don't feel bothered much :)
With regard to priorities, I'm fully aware of this - it's why I don't participate here or on the IRCAG much anymore...... I'm at university now, and R/L study is more important.
My dislike of Undernet stems from two things :
1) they have a large amount of very lame activity on their network which they do not police (e.g. warez, packet kiddies, etc)
2) they appear to simply not care about their users.
Am I self centric? Yes :) Is this a problem? No.
All I ask for is an announcement from Undernet that they made a mistake, and apologise. I don't expect them to conform to my wishes on the myriad of things I disagree with them about.... all I ask for is some sign, however small, that they respect their users enough to let them know what is going on.
It doesn't have to be during, it doesnt' have to be immediately after, it doesn't have to even be the same day. But some admission on Undernet's part that they are human, that they did do something wrong, and that the actually care about their userbase would be nice.
I'm fine with them, I just don't go there :) An announcement would be nice, but hey, I've learnt not to expect them :)
I apologise if I flamed them off rather too much above........ For about 2 years now, I have been running free services (like Undernet does, but not just IRC-based services).... and I have found that the vast majority of all the 'bad' users I get (the kiddies, the abusers, the clueless people who don't even want to learn) come from Undernet. I've built up a sort of pet hatred for that time...... people from there are the source of most of the hack attempts and general user-related problems I get with my free services. I realise not all of Undernet is like that, but after a long while of using them myself, and being continually dissilusioned, then of leaving them, and having a continual stream of problems and problem users come to me from them...... you can understand why I don't like them much.
Anyway. I know Undernet probably won't apologise, or announce their mistake. But if they did, it'd be nice. It's all I'd be wishing for :)
I really don't expect much. Undernet has long given me the impression is simply does not care about its users. This is the norm for it.
If I see a public announcement/apology for this latest incident, then I'll be most happy :)
I don't expect it though, and I certainly don't demand it. They don't have any obligations to any of their users, least of all me, as I left there awhile ago.
As the old quote goes though, I do think that the best measure of a man is how he treats those to which he has no obligation.
-Ashen |
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braindigitalis
Idler
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 443
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Apr 18, 2005 5:49pm Post subject: |
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Before i post this, please understand: I have nothing at all against undernet. This is not a flame.
I run a channel which is "mirrored" across many networks using an irc bot. The channel is a support channel for said bot. One of the networks mirrored (along with many other top 20 networks) is undernet. The one thing i always remember about undernet above all else is beggars. I have to be honest, nothing against the place or its staff, but all we ever got was people coming to our channel and asking "can you loan me a bot? i have no money, and i dont want to pay, in fact i didnt even READ YOUR TOPIC THAT SAYS YOU DONT LOAN BOTS but i'll ask here anyway." needless to say, they all earn a swift kickban.
I believe its just the 'culture' of undernets services package (gnuworld? i forget...) and the policies they have set which encourage users to beg for bots to hold channels open while they get the channels status 'voted on' so they can get 'X' in it.
I might be wildly wrong on my assumptions of how X works, im certainly not an undernet regular - if im wrong someone please go ahead and correct me. I do know this, recently the number of people begging for bots has decreased. Maybe policies have changed.... *shrug*.  |
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ShelLuser
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Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Apr 19, 2005 1:34am Post subject: |
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| braindigitalis wrote: | | I believe its just the 'culture' of undernets services package (gnuworld? i forget...) and the policies they have set which encourage users to beg for bots to hold channels open while they get the channels status 'voted on' so they can get 'X' in it. |
You're post marks it pretty well. Its also the reason why you have channels on undernet like #bot2lend, to do just this. |
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miteymite
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Apr 19, 2005 3:16am Post subject: |
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heh, I couldn't help but notice that X netsplited for a while after the issue was resolved. Wonder how that could have happened.
About all this bad talk on Undernet...
First I have to admit that I agree the 'idiot culture' you all mention above is present However after spending a number of years on Undernet going from one channel to another and starting a few of my own I can assure you these days I am able to avoid most of the BS.
Ashen, I have to ask... When 'idiots' joined your ex Undernet help channel acting rude and demanding an answer you banned them, did you not? Sorry for the somewhat personal attack, but I feel you may be biased given your past incounters with a single individual. I had a similar issue with someone who used a spam bot to try and keep a channel from being approved for X. Invite only and a small notify/invite script easily solved the issue and the spammer eventually gave up.
For the last few months I've maintained a RSS feed channel on Undernet. Once the channel was established, X was quickly and easily provided by Undernet's CService. The entire process took just over a week with the help of supporters. During the notice process, the channel gained a lot of new regulars, which usually will occur. Given the complexity of the process, the extent of X, and the helpful CService web interface I can understand why this isn't handed out to just anyone.
Back to the g-line mistake... It was disappointing to hear from friends that their channels which lacked X went opless after the g-line accident, but it would appear that is the way the cookie crumbles on Undernet. The way I feel is that if you can't handle it you shouldn't complain. Personally, I love Undernet for it's instability and the feeling that you can't trust ANYONE. It's just my kind of place. It's also one of the most diverse IRC networks I've ever connected to.
Hope you enjoyed the rant. I'm off to slumber land.
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