|
|
| Author |
Message |
codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 345
|
 Posted: Aug 09, 2004 9:57pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Well, the thing with Java is, it is hard to say whether it is faster or slower because it depends. Java's memory allocation system is FAR faster than that of C/C++ type languages (this excludes MS's Managed C++). The reason is, unlike C/C++, where memory management is handled by the programmer, Java handles it for you. Meaning, I create a new String, I don't need to desotry it, Java does that. Now, say I create String1, then it gets destroyed, now I create String2. In C/C++, a program generally allocates memory for String1, releases it, then allocates memory for String2. In Java, it will try to reuse the same memory from String1, which can make it faster.
On the other hand, Java adds a VM which requires additional translation of instructions from byte code to machine code, which generally slows things down.
So it is really hard to say which is slower/faster. It's really one of those "it depends" answers. But one thing that is definately sure, Java code is almost always more secure than C/C++ code (exclude .NET which attempts to make C/C++ code much more secure).
In any case, I personally find Java programs ackward. Java is a beautiful language, programming in Java is great. I just hate the fact that you can't get stuff that works just like a regular Windows app! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
w00t
Eleet
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 698
Location: Nowra, Australia
|
| Posted: Aug 09, 2004 10:08pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is exactly my beef with it. Mostly, I just hate having an interpreter sitting in the middle. Sure, it makes it portable, often though it makes the interface (of a java app) rather sluggish.
Now, if there was some way to hook into direct window creation, then I'd be all for it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rob_
Idler
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 309
|
| Posted: Aug 10, 2004 1:08am Post subject: |
|
|
| use a native compiler such as gcj ? :) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Talrias
Lurker
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 160
Location: :noitacoL
|
| Posted: Aug 10, 2004 5:40am Post subject: |
|
|
| codemastr wrote: | jIRCii is most certainly Java. If someone told you it wasn't, I'd disregard their comments since they clearly didn't even try the program! \
FAQ question #1: What is jIRCii?
Answer:
[...]
As a side note, jIRCii is written in Java, but don't let that fool
you. This client was written with speed in mind.
[...]
The author seems to think it is Java. |
Whoops, I didn't re-read my post. I meant that it isn't a web-based java client.
Chris |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 345
|
| Posted: Aug 10, 2004 11:10am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rob_ wrote: | use a native compiler such as gcj ?  |
Yes, but then you lose the benefits of bytecode! Java bytecode allows JIT compiling (Just In Time). This means the code can be optimized on the fly and can sometimes provide better performance than natively compiled code. As an example, when you compile a C program you say "compile for x86." Now the code runs on an x86 machine. But all x86's are not created equal. Consider this. I compile my program for x86. Now someone uses it on a P4 system with HT. Well my program can't take advantage of HT because it was programmed to work on all x86 machines, not just P4 with HT. With Java, it would detect that it is on a system with HT support and it would optimize the code for HT as it is running. With a natively compiled app, you don't have that benefit. As I said, it's hard to say whether Java is slower or not . In some instances it is slower, in some it is faster.
Additionally, gcj does not have full support for AWT and Swing, the Java GUI classes. Based on the stuff used in this app, it appears to be using Swing, so that would mean, even if you wanted to compile it natively, you probably couldn't with gcj. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cobi
Lurker
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 120
Location: IRC
|
| Posted: Aug 14, 2004 3:57pm Post subject: hmm |
|
|
| my personal favorite is Icechat |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wlfpck
none
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 32
|
| Posted: Aug 14, 2004 10:08pm Post subject: well |
|
|
| is icechat for windows or mac? And a lot of stuff seems similar in besirc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ed
SearchIRC Staff
Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 366
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
|
| Posted: Aug 15, 2004 12:25am Post subject: |
|
|
| Windows, the screenshots are XP, and the download is .exe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LesPaul59
none
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 1
|
| Posted: Aug 15, 2004 6:30am Post subject: |
|
|
| for the chatter java chat with a nice inter-face Pjirc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
W-Unit
Newbie
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 83
|
| Posted: Sep 02, 2004 6:09pm Post subject: |
|
|
Don't see why any user would want anything but mIRC.
I also suggest the Addict 3 script for it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
w00t
Eleet
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 698
Location: Nowra, Australia
|
| Posted: Sep 02, 2004 6:11pm Post subject: |
|
|
| W-Unit wrote: | | Don't see why any user would want anything but mIRC. |
It's personal choice. Personally, I don't see why any user would use mIRC, but that's just me |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
blueice
none
Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 34
|
| Posted: Sep 06, 2004 9:40pm Post subject: |
|
|
It IS personal choice, indeed!
I have been using mIRC since my first visit to IRC, more than 9 years ago. I simply got used to it, to the 'general look & feel', so I will keep using it until I die.
I was rather upset at Khaled, when he changed several system variables (was that from 5.5 up, or from 5.6 up? I don't remember), and my own scripts and popups wouldn't work anymore.
But with some advice, I got them all running again, and I can just pay Khaled my great respect for - in my humble opinion - the best IRC client ever, and even free for the folks who refuse to reg it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 345
|
| Posted: Sep 07, 2004 8:48pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I simply got used to it, to the 'general look & feel', so I will keep using it until I die. |
Yeah, and you know what's funny? mIRC is probably the only program in existence that has been around for 9 years and still looks almost exactly the same ! The "general look & feel" is one of the reasons I got tired of it. mIRC looks like it was made for Windows 3.1, an era when we all had 16 color displays. It doesn't look like something meant for use on Windows XP, a system where we now have billions of colors at our disposal. The client I use now takes advantage of new technologies. It still works on older machines, but it doesn't force everyone to live in 1990 simply because a few people refuse to upgrade. Though of course, some people like consistency so the fact that it hasn't changed in 9 years might be a plus to som.
But the other thing that really bothered me about mIRC is because Khaled really doesn't care about users in my opinion; I could be totally wrong, but that's the impression he gave me. He never interacts with them at all. Whereas with the client I use now, I talk to the author several times each week. If I can ever get some free time, I'll even have the opportunity to meet him in person. I doubt something like that would ever have happened with Khaled... Just like I say with networks - that users are the most important thing, this is also true with IRC clients. For me personally, Khaled didn't make me feel like I was special by running mIRC, he made me feel like I was just some annoying guy in a sea full of annoying people. Other clients seem to take it differently. They seem to really care about the users and they take the time to get to know them. Again though, you might totally disagree with this as well.
| Quote: | | I Don't see why any user would want anything but mIRC. |
Though this is certainly a matter of opinion, can you (or anyone else) please tell me why you "don't see why any user" would ever choose something else? I've thought about this for some time now, and I've yet to discover a reason. What makes mIRC so great? What feature does it have that all other clients lack? I can't find any! In fact, all I find is that mIRC lacks things that are very standard in other clients! 99% of the feature suggestions that appear on mirc.com forums are already available in other clients. People suggest theming, more scripting support, plugins, per-network settings, non-ini based settings (registry/xml/etc.), the ability to change ctcp version replies, the ability to significantly customize the interface, (customizable toolbars, menus, window trees, docked windows, etc.), RGB color, more advanced script editor (syntax highlighting, code insight, etc.), Ipv6 support, etc., all of those features exist in other clients. So please, enlighten me, what makes mIRC so spectacular that you can't even conceive why someone would run something else?
Also I'd ask, have you used any of the other recent IRC clients? No, I don't mean "I used pirch 5 years ago," I'm asking whether you've used a recent client. If not, how can you say you don't see why anyone wouldn't use mIRC? You don't know what else is out there! Regardless of whether you think mIRC is the best, or worst client, you are doing yourself a huge disservice if you refuse to even look at alternatives. It's like the common attitude people have in the US. "Why would anyone want to travel abroad? What does COUNTRYX have that the US doesn't?" Then the first time they go overseas, their attitude changes completely. They realize there *IS* a reason why people travel the world, because there are things that are nice about other countries that we don't have in the US. To say, "mIRC is the best" without having tried anything else is closeminded. Don't limit yourself to simply believing mIRC is the best, prove it to yourself! Try other things. Maybe when you try a few other clients you'll still think mIRC is the best, and that's fine. But, at least you now know what else is out there. You're no longer simply taking it for granted that mIRC is the best.
But honestly, I challenge any mIRC user to tell me the reason why mIRC is the best and why no other client out there satisfies your needs. I've proposed this challenge to many people, not one has ever answered it. I usually just get answers like, "because I like mIRC," or some such unuseful nonsense. Or, I get banned from a channel with reasons like "MIRC RULES," but still no explanation. I'm not posing this question so that I can convince people to switch, I'm simply posing it because I really cannot come up with any logical reason why so many thousands of people think mIRC is the best other than they haven't tried anything else. And I'm also not meaning this as an insult. I used to be one of these people. When someone told me, "I use someotherclient" I would always tell them they are crazy, and that mIRC is better. I remember the first time someone told me to use Klient (which is what I currently use), I told them they were stupid for running Klient, that it was garbage compared to mIRC. But of course, I never even looked at Klient at that time, in fact, I hadn't looked at anything except mIRC. I just assumed, like everyone else, that mIRC *HAD* to be the best. Then one day I went and tried Klient, and I haven't used mIRC since that day. I realized that my conclusion that mIRC was the best was not based on knowledge of the competition, it was based on a lack of knowledge. Once again, you might disagree, but you owe it to yourself to at least find out...
Btw, 20 years ago, the saying was, "I don't know why anyone would use anything other than an IBM" (i.e. why would anyone use an IBM clone?) now I bet less than 1% of the users on this forum use a PC that was made by IBM. Once people realize that there are alternatives out there, they begin to realize some of those alternatives are better.
| Quote: | | and even free for the folks who refuse to reg it. |
Btw, statements like that are bad. mIRC is NOT free. If you are going to say that, then please also thank the makers of Mercedes because their cars are free to anyone who goes and robs a local car dealership. Refusing to register mIRC is no different than stealing a car, it doesn't make it free - it makes you a criminal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
w00t
Eleet
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 698
Location: Nowra, Australia
|
| Posted: Sep 08, 2004 4:57am Post subject: |
|
|
codemastr,
The "look and feel" of mirc was the very reason I downloaded and played with the Invision script for about 2 years. It was one of the few reasons I continued to use mirc. Then I started to look at the script, and I'm not 100% sure, but I have the nasty feeling that invision had backdoors built in... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aquanight
Lurker
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 116
Location: Boise, ID
|
| Posted: Sep 08, 2004 8:59am Post subject: |
|
|
Heh. I don't use other peoples scripts  . I make my own, sometimes borrowing small snippets so as to figure out stuff . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| |
Register
Log in
