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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1614
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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 Posted: Oct 01, 2004 9:18am Post subject: |
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Well in any case, the feature you requested is not possible. I don't mean it's hard to do, I mean it is a proven mathematical impossibility.
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Microsoft Excel does it when entering math formulas when one cell is a variable in the math expression as well as the sum.
Example, having this in Cell B2
Secondly, why can't the mIRC script editor silently trigger all scripted code when you hit save or program a button like the braces eval button? Appearently there is some evaluation going on there. |
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codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Oct 01, 2004 12:55pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, Excel implements it for a *specific* function, SUM. It can't generate an algorithm that works for *any* function.
| Quote: | | Secondly, why can't the mIRC script editor silently trigger all scripted code when you hit save or program a button like the braces eval button? Appearently there is some evaluation going on there. |
Well that's an easy one. How long is infinity? It's infinite! To determine whether it loops infinitely by executing it, it would have to allow it to execute for an infinite amount of time that is an order of infinity greater than the infinity of the infinite loop (try understanding that one!) Since this is not possible, you can't do this. What I mean is, what if I create a loop that is designed to run for 9 days straight? 9 days is rather short of infinity. The only way mIRC is going to know it will terminate after 9 days is to run it for 9 days and 1 second and see that it stops. So how long does mIRC continue to "silently trigger" the code before it determines "this loop goes forever?" The only way to do this is to allow it to loop for an infinite amount of time. And that's not possible.
Note, if none of that made sense, you now know why Georg Cantor, the man who made some of the discoveries involving infinity, transfinite numbers, and set theory - whose work I am referencing, went insane while working on his theories and ended up dying in a psychiatric hospital :p |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1614
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: Oct 01, 2004 1:09pm Post subject: |
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Actually it makes perfect sence and I wasn't taking that into account ..  |
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aquanight
Lurker
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 116
Location: Boise, ID
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| Posted: Oct 02, 2004 12:19am Post subject: |
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| codemastr wrote: | | Yeah, Excel implements it for a *specific* function, SUM. It can't generate an algorithm that works for *any* function. |
Doesn't Excel have something to look for circular dependencies between cells (a form of infinite loop)? eg A1 is =B1+C1+D1, B1 is =D1*2, C1 = B1 - 3, and D1 is =COUNTNUM(A1:D1). Evaluates A1. It references B1, so go evaluate B1. It references D1, so go evaluate D1. D1 references A1, which we see is pending evaluation, thus we trigger an error here.
But Excel and spreadsheets are one thing. Executable code is another. There are no less than 45967894985654657654 ways to write an infinite loop - there's no way a program can detect them all! Now, with script code, you're doing your own parsing, thus I'd imagine it MIGHT be possible to see if it is entering the loop with all variables identical to the last run and no volitale variables (such as socket reads) are involved, raising suspicion of an infinite loop.
And by the way, I've never made an infinite loop in mIRC that couldn't be Ctrl+Break'd. Doesn't mean it isn't possible, but just FYI  . |
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magpie
Idler
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 453
Location: Essex, UK
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| Posted: Oct 02, 2004 5:04am Post subject: |
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| I've had infinite loops which have required me to kill mIRC. I don't see why there can't be a setting like that in Windows Task Scheduler, where you can stop a script if it's run for more than X seconds, minutes or hours. Obviously it's not that simple, as scripts may be running for a long time and not in a loop, but with the addition of a couple of commands (similar to watchdog timers on embedded devices) such that if something's not reset within a specified time limit the script is terminated. Obviously this would require the cooperation of people who actually write scripts. |
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Wlfpck
none
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Oct 16, 2004 9:41pm Post subject: alright |
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So back to my originally posted question...
I need an fserve to share snowboarding pics and videos of me and my friends. However I don't want to use a client that requires pay. (mIRC does not count as a client that requires pay because it still functions after 30 days. I already paid tho) I have looked at xchat but that requires pay now.
I have checked out hydraIRC, Icechat, mIRC, besirc, visual IRC, vortec IRC
Is there any other free clients I should look at. (right now i'm kinda leaning towards staying with mIRC or going to ICe chat, or Visual IRC, vortec IRC)
If possible I also want a client that i can load and unload the script with out having to delete the files (ex mirc.-->script must be loaded by replacing or changing the mirc.ini file.) |
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nomad
none
Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Oct 16, 2004 10:03pm Post subject: |
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| ircII |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1614
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: Oct 16, 2004 10:25pm Post subject: |
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If possible I also want a client that i can load and unload the script with out having to delete the files (ex mirc.-->script must be loaded by replacing or changing the mirc.ini file.)
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uhm ... /load and /unload .. no need to edit anything. Also mIRC has built in fserve support .. eg /fserve |
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codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Oct 17, 2004 11:20am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | (mIRC does not count as a client that requires pay because it still functions after 30 days. I already paid tho) |
mIRC is as free as a car. You're allowed to take the car on a test drive to see if you like it. However, if you decide to keep the car after a test drive you MUST pay. If you don't, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL. mIRC is the same way. You may use it for a trial period. If you decide to keep it after the trial period, you MUST pay. If you don't, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL. It's as simple as that. Deny it all you want, but mIRC DOES require you to pay. |
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Wlfpck
none
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Oct 17, 2004 5:17pm Post subject: yes |
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yes I know and i have already paid for mIRC.
as for loading and unloading the scripts. u can't just do a /load and /unload with scripts like anaconda or something. |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1614
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: Oct 17, 2004 5:56pm Post subject: Re: yes |
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| Wlfpck wrote: | yes I know and i have already paid for mIRC.
as for loading and unloading the scripts. u can't just do a /load and /unload with scripts like anaconda or something. |
/load and /unload are mIRC commands .. not script commands ... if your mIRC script tries to re-alias them then you have a crappy script. Also the /quote command will bypass any scripted aliases so try /quote load or /quote unload. |
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aquanight
Lurker
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 116
Location: Boise, ID
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| Posted: Oct 17, 2004 10:16pm Post subject: |
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| You're thinking of /!load and /!unload. If there was a /quote, it'd be an alias of /raw which is used to send raw data to the server . |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1614
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: Oct 18, 2004 8:09am Post subject: |
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| aquanight wrote: | | You're thinking of /!load and /!unload. If there was a /quote, it'd be an alias of /raw which is used to send raw data to the server . |
mIRC has both /quote and /raw. A standard trick is to use /quote when replacing a mIRC command such as in an away script. I type /away <msg> and it activites my away alias. Inside my away alias is /quote away, which actually send the /away command to the server.
Such as:
| Code: |
away { quote away $1- | ame is away for: $1- }
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/quote load -rs somescript.ini will work exactly the same. |
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aquanight
Lurker
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 116
Location: Boise, ID
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| Posted: Oct 18, 2004 9:21am Post subject: |
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[code]/quote test
[09:20:24] -> Server: test
test Unknown command[/quote]
*cough*
As I said, /quote is the same as /raw. If you want to run a command without checking for aliases, you use /!<command>. |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1614
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: Oct 18, 2004 10:48am Post subject: |
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ok, first .. I wasn't thinking of /!load nor /!unload.
second, great! there are a few less characters to type. Beyond that there is no difference between /quote load and /!load.
as far as /quote being an alias ... perhaps it is .. but it's an alias that is inside mIRC itself .. not something that needs to be in an alias file. As I said before .. mIRC has both /quote and /raw. |
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